Why Would A Loving God Kill Egyptian Children? In this episode, the group discusses how a loving God could kill the firstborn of Egypt in the Old Testament and how that compares to what we know about Jesus in the New Testament.
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Transcript – Why Would A Loving God Kill Egyptian Children? | Video
00:00:00:10 – 00:00:22:14
Derek
“Why would a loving God kill Egyptian children?” Today on Where We Begin.
00:00:22:14 – 00:00:44:17
Derek
Hey, guys. Welcome back to Where We Begin, a podcast where we discuss some of the toughest objections to the Christian faith. I’m your host, Derek Caldwell. I’m returning again somehow and joined once again by my friends and colleagues: Alycia Wood, Lou Phillips, and Xandra Carroll. And I –
00:00:44:17 – 00:00:45:14
Xandra
Did you forget my name almost?
00:00:45:14 – 00:00:57:17
Derek
No, I just – actually what happened was, I just realized on – I’m now on recording – on tape? I don’t know what we call this now. I said that Lou was my friend. And he looked at me like he knew.
00:00:58:07 – 00:00:59:05
Lou
I appreciated it. So thank you.
00:00:59:22 – 00:01:01:08
Derek
I mean it. I mean it.
00:01:01:23 – 00:01:04:15
Lou
I know you mean it, and that’s why I really have enjoyed my time.
00:01:04:18 – 00:01:07:12
Derek
Yeah. Good. Great. Well.
00:01:07:12 – 00:01:08:11
Lou
That’s great.
00:01:08:11 – 00:04:25:12
Derek
We don’t like to waste a lot of time here. We’re going to jump right in because this is a big question we have today. And I think it’s a really difficult question as well. And the question is essentially this, and I feel somewhat unfair that – it feels sort of unfair that I don’t get to tell you guys what these questions are before the show because this is so big and there’s a lot that needs to go into studying this. But essentially the question is this “Why would a good, loving God have killed Egyptian children?” This is a question that we get a lot. You can read a lot of Old Testament violent books that maybe don’t even mention it, but it is one of the difficult ones. And then just for those who don’t know, I thought it would be helpful just to read some of the texts before we start just to kind of get an idea of like, here’s what we’re up against here. So we’re – and this is the book of Exodus, starting with chapter and verse 4. Chapter 11, verse 4. “So Moses said, “This is what the Lord says: ‘About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her mill, and all her firstborn cattle as well. There will be loud wailing through Egypt – worse than there has ever been or ever will be again… Pharaoh will refuse to listen to you – so that my wonders may be multiplied in Egypt.” The Lord says that to Moses. Then when we go to Chapter 12, “…I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt.” And then in verse 23, “When the Lord goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians, we will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will pass over that doorway, and he will not permit the destroyer to enter your houses and strike you down.” And then finally, in verse 12:30, we read of the aftermath, “Pharaoh and his officials and all the Egyptians got up during the night, and there was loud wailing in Egypt, for there was not a house without someone dead.” So to our sensibilities, this sounds pretty horrendous. And I think it’s easy to see why Christians, when they read about Christ saying things like, yeah, let the children come to me, and the way that we know that historically the Christian faith elevated the status of children above what they were before. Then when we hear this, there really does seem to be this very difficult divide. So I want to open up with Xandra. How can we begin to, I guess, start thinking about first, just honoring, it is a very complex question but, how do we even begin thinking, you know, this is somehow even the same God that we’re talking about?
00:04:26:03 – 00:07:59:02
Xandra
Yeah. I really appreciate questions like these because they force you to dig deep into the scriptures. And there have been many times in my own walk when I’ve read something and thought, “If this is true and the way I’m reading it is true, I’m not sure I can believe this Bible. I’m not sure I can believe the God that this Bible is purporting.” So yeah, but each and every time when I dig into it a bit more, I’ve found my faith getting stronger, not weaker. So yeah, I mean, this is a passage where off set you read it and you think, “What on earth is going on here? How can this possibly be a good thing?” And I was actually just, while you were reading it, remembering a time. I was reading a passage in the New Testament where it was saying like women are not allowed to braid their hair. And I was thinking, “That’s really strange. The Bible says that women aren’t allowed to braid their hair, but I braid my hair all the time. And besides, like, what is this about?” But when I did some research, I read it in context. I realized that in that letter to the Corinthians, it was talking to Corinthian women who they would like braid their hair in these really intricate ways and pile them up on top of their heads. And you could tell a woman’s social status by how high that pile of braids was on top of her head. So it was such a beautiful way that Paul was sharing the gospel message with them, saying, You don’t have to earn your way in society anymore, like God is giving you your value. You don’t have to work so hard to be valued and honored. God has already given you all the honor and value you could ever need. So don’t worry so much about making yourself beautiful or whatever. So that’s what he was referring to. But this passage? Yeah, I mean, again, this is coming back to the character of God. And I think when we read it in context, just like the women with the braided hair, we have to ask, “Who was this written to and what was the author trying to say?” And one thing that struck me – so I was reading, I just pulled this open and read along with you as you were reading. And you read 12 up through like a verse 30 or something like that. But I kind of was just scanning ahead of that a little further to verse 33. And I just read through that just kind of quietly about how the Egyptians or the Israelites were very highly favored by the Egyptians after all of this happens. In fact, the Egyptians give money and gifts and stuff to the Israelites as they’re leaving. And so Israel, basically without even trying to, plunders the Egyptians, is what it says. And they give them over all these things. And then I also noticed in 12 verse 38 how it says a mixed multitude also went with them. So it sounds like it wasn’t just the Israelites who were leaving Egypt. There are a lot of Egyptians who go with them. So it seems like whatever happened, when I read it, it’s an atrocity and it’s shocking and it’s terrible. But to the eyes of the Egyptians, what did they see? And the fact that they, a lot of them, turned to God and said, We want to go with you. And the fact that a lot of them were giving gold and things to the Israelites and gave – it says that they found favor in the eyes of the Egyptians. I find that really interesting. So clearly there’s more going on here than just meets the eye. Yeah. And I have a lot more that I can say about what I think some of those things are, but maybe I’ll let you guys chime in for a bit if you want.
00:07:59:06 – 00:09:57:07
Lou
I think it’s an awful thing to read. It’s not a – It’s very difficult. I mean, to the exact question, how could a loving God? It’s very difficult to just be like, yeah, this is simple. It’s not. It’s hard. And I think one of the most difficult things about Christianity is seeing – the like – is really humbling yourself to think that he is God and you are not and that he has the right to do things. And in when he does those things, he is still just and good. That seems almost – it seems so difficult to believe. And this is one of those passages where it’s like, how? How is that good? I get it. He’s the author of all life. It’s not like one of us taking lives. We are created being taking the life of a created being. But it feels similar. It seems similar. It is interesting, too. It’s described – As you were just reading that, Derek, I was just thinking, is that he will strike, he will strike. And then finally, when it does happen, he says he will pass over and if not the destroyer will. So but, from my understanding, God is sovereign. So I don’t think that’s like – I think a lot of people may try to, I mean, it’s a terrible phrase, to say like get God off the hook on here. It’s like, no God’s sovereign. God knows what’s going. He’s talking about it and yes, there’s plagues that preceded this, and it seemed like he gave them ample time. And this seems like a very, very harsh punishment in light of what’s – in light of what’s going on. And so I just say, I think it’s very hard and maybe we can get into it. I’d love to hear what Alycia has to say, but I’d love to talk for. I’d love to say how I can still wrestle – How I can know that truth and still believe God is good. But maybe that’s a little further down in the question, but I don’t know, Alycia, do you want it?
00:09:57:08 – 00:11:21:10
Alycia
Well, I like what Xandra was saying about – I think, you know, things have to be looked at, number one, in context, kind of like you were saying. And one of the things that you look at is it wasn’t like God just went in to the Egyptians and said, Hey, I want you to let my people go and you’re not gonna let them go, so I’m going to kill your children. This was the final in a series of opportunities that God gave Pharaoh, who, by the way, was a slave owner. For whatever reason, we always let that part – We ask, why did God harden Pharaoh’s heart? Why to God, you know, act out in these plagues? And we’re forgetting that he’s trying to free people from several hundred years of slavery. OK? So these are – this is a person who is a slave owner, who is not listening in terms of freeing these people. So you’re kind of like, OK, well, we recognize these people who are oppressed and we want them to be freed. And God is doing these smaller things that I don’t have these catastrophic steps in order to get him to finally let them go. And he won’t. So he almost has to come with something harder. And, you know, so we’ve got, you know, these plagues of locusts, and we got the plague of darkness, and the water turning into blood, and all these different things. And Pharaoh kept saying, No, no, no, I’m not letting them go. I’m not letting them go. And he was resistant to freeing these people. And I think, number one, we have to understand that this was the final one after a series of I don’t even know how many was maybe 8 or so, I don’t know, 10 , 9,
00:11:21:10 – 00:11:22:10
Lou
There’s 10 total, right?
00:11:22:10 – 00:11:23:04
Xandra
10 total plagues.
00:11:23:08 – 00:11:55:01
Alycia
So OK, so there’s 9 previous ones. And so this would be the final kind of one. And so I think that’s important to understand is that there were many opportunities before this and it’s almost like a parent, sometimes, will do that with their child. They’ll say, OK, no I don’t want you to do that. Nope, I don’t want you to do that. OK? No. And finally the parent says, OK, now you lose the toy. Or now I’m turning the video game off. Or now you lose access. Like, you give people these kind of steps. And then when they still don’t, then you’ve got to come down with something harsh to them. And so I think that’s one of the things that we need to come to mind.
00:11:56:04 – 00:12:26:04
Lou
Can I say something? Just to play a little bit of devil’s advocate there, Alycia. I struggle with that analogy specifically because no child, no parent, eventually, is going to say, but then I’ll kill you if you don’t, right? Just to give the person that is wrestling with this – because I do see the comparisons, like what type of wicked father would do these types of things where – Because I think the analogy works to an extent, but like it does seem drastic for the final consequence to be death, not just simply the removal of a pleasure or joy.
00:12:26:04 – 00:15:06:04
Alycia
Sure. And we can say that I think I was speaking more to just the increase in punishment where it starts at a certain level and then it ends big. But yes, you’re right, right? Hopefully, no parent is saying, let’s let, you know, that you take your life as a result. So, yeah, no, I totally hear what you’re saying there. And I think the second thing too, that I kind of think of when I think of this passage is, you know, very few major stories, I feel like in the Old Testament, are taught in isolation. Like they’re part of larger stories and larger narratives. And this is not the first time in the Old Testament where God has asked for the sacrifice of a son. It happened with Abraham and Isaac, and we can get into all of that at another time, and that would be a whole other episode to kind of talk about it. But I love that story because of all the things that we learned from it. But you have the similarities: you’ve got a lamb, you got the firstborn son. You’ve got some similarities that you see there to this story. And then you see the similarity in this story and actually the cross. Right? So you see, number one, in verse twelve, in Exodus 12:12, It tells us this is an act of judgment. Which is very interesting. We know that there is judgment that occurs on the cross. We see that there’s a lamb or a kid, depending on the Hebrew word – how you interpret the Hebrew word. So it’s a baby goat. But either way, lambs goats are pretty similar. So we see that in verse 3 that a lamb or kid is going to be slaughtered. So we know Jesus is the lamb. We see that people are saved by the blood that when you put this blood over the doorframe. And I don’t know if the door is wooden. If it is, that would be even more interesting because you had a wooden cross, and you got a wooden door, and you’ve got this blood that’s over the door frame, and you got the blood in the cross. So you’re seeing that parallel there. It’s the firstborn son. It’s not the second son. It’s not the firstborn daughter. It’s not the oldest, the oldest child of male or female. It is the oldest son. That’s what it is specific. You are going to lose your firstborn, Jesus, as well as first / only born. It’s also interesting in verse 14 that it says that the day to be remembered yearly, which is interesting too, because you think about the crucifixion is, you know, we celebrate Good Friday and Easter. That’s a date that’s remembered yearly as well. And then also the ties between when the crucifixion happening. I believe, during Passover as well. So you’ve got these – this whole story is the Passover story and you got the crucifix lining up. So there are bigger things happening there, like you can’t say, and even if we can’t fully understand what the bigger things are. I think it’s good that we take the time to at least acknowledge there are more things happening here than just this isolated story. God is doing something, and he is connecting it. Stuff that happened previously with Abraham and Isaac and he’s connecting the future with what happens with Jesus.
00:15:06:04 – 00:16:00:22
Xandra
Well, and I wonder too, if he’s also connecting what happened in this story at the beginning? Because this all started with Pharaoh and making a decree that, not the firstborn sons would be killed but that, all of the sons would be killed. Every single Hebrew son. Every single Israelite son was supposed to be killed on the birthstool. If a woman was having a baby and they saw it was a son, they were going to kill it immediately. And so God’s actually showing mercy. I think he’s actually showing restraint here. Where he’s not taking the life of every single son, which would have been tit for tat, right? Right. He’s not doing that. He’s actually showing mercy. And as you so beautifully pointed out, I hadn’t thought about like, you know, the cross and the wood and the blood, but the one who took the firstborn sons of Egypt is the one who gave his own son to reconcile all of humanity to himself. And that is incredible mercy.
00:16:00:23 – 00:16:34:11
Alycia
Exactly. You can’t miss the parallel of those homes that are covered by the blood will be saved from death. The blood gives life. And you see that parallel on the cross, right? The blood of Jesus Christ gives life. It wasn’t just that he had to be, you know, whipped, but it is through – he takes on that judgment. And we know that it talks about, the Bible talks about the shedding of blood. You know, that there’s no way for sins to be dealt with and this kind of thing. So you see these correlations that, yeah, they just can’t be overlooked. They can’t be missed.
00:16:35:06 – 00:17:14:16
Xandra
Oh sorry. Go ahead. Not just promises in the future, you just sparked another thought, Alycia. But he’s not just fulfilling his promises in the future. I was just realizing he’s also fulfilling promises from the past. Because if you remember in Genesis, he makes a promise like, those who bless you, I will bless and those who curse you, I will curse. And I’m imagining now like the Israelites who are living in Egypt and they’re crying out to God, when? When are you going to fulfill your promise that you said that you were going to curse those who curse us? And waiting for him. So I think again, he’s a God of mercy, but he’s also a God of justice, a God of judgment. Anyway, that’s another thought that came. Like, Derek, what were you going to say?
00:17:15:06 – 00:18:37:01
Derek
Well, first, yeah, I think we’ve covered a lot of like, very interesting avenues, I think, for people to even look into this further. Especially the idea of people going with them seems to show that after nine plagues, a lot of people have learned, and there must have been some invitation given, that you can come with us. That we’re not just going to leave you high and dry. But I want to ask, I think what a lot of people would say is, you know, the imagery, the symbolism is all matching up over time and everything. But what about one of the difficulties that always comes up with this question Is the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart? And so it does, I think it very much is meant to read as a rescue story from very brutal slavery. And it is, but the idea is often given that, well, if God had just reasoned with Pharaoh and not hardened his heart, then perhaps Pharaoh would have just given them up, you know, of his own good will. So I wondered if someone would just want to touch that. Like, who was Pharaoh? Is there? Are there signs in there that actually God made him do something he wouldn’t have done anyway? Or what’s going on there?
00:18:37:18 – 00:18:38:22
Xandra
I no, you go ahead.
00:18:38:23 – 00:20:28:15
Lou
I mean, I think you’re running into another deeper theological question, which is the sovereignty of God over the free will of people. And is that a contradiction? And I’m of the opinion that God is fully sovereign and that we have to – our understanding and – a type of free will that where it matters. That we can actually be held accountable for our actions. When I read this story, specifically the Pharaoh, I see someone hardening their own hearts as well. Now it does say God hardened him, but I think there’s – this is where it’s like, it’s both. And we don’t like that, actually. We do not like that answer. I don’t like that answer, but it is both. I think we so often see – God either has sovereignty over everything, God either controls everything or I have free will. There’s no such thing as in between. And I actually think that’s just an apparent contradiction. It’s not true. It’s the same. I mean, the best analogy I’ve heard for it is like, does light travel in particles or waves. It’s like, well, it’s both. And we actually still don’t know why that’s the case. There are things that are complex that seem like it would be one or the other, but a more nuanced approach tells you that it’s both. And so I do think. I do think there is evidence to show that both Pharoah was making decisions in choosing to rebel against what God is actually asking to do and God, in light of that, also hardened his heart. But I don’t put Pharaoh or God at the mercy of Pharaoh’s heart, either. So that’s – because you’re either going to do one or the other. And I just don’t. It’s the – we have to sit in the uncomfortableness of that one. And I think we actually see that in Romans 9 as well. I don’t think it’s the simple. It’s like, yup, like Pharaoh really wanted to do this and God was like, no. I’m using you to do this. And it wasn’t the other way around, either. It’s this weird – God doesn’t work despite our actions or our decisions, but he does work inside them as well.
00:20:28:22 – 00:21:05:06
Derek
But wouldn’t you say, though, like in scripture, though, and this might just come out to see – you’re going to see theological differences among the people up here? But don’t you see, though, that the people when it does talk about a hardening or “vessels of wrath,” it’s not as if it came out of the blue that there were these decisions being made. And so of the person, it seems like of the person’s free will to do a certain thing. And so God will use the hardening they’ve already done to bring about something better. And I don’t know what do you think of? Hardening sometimes seems like it’s just.
00:21:05:06 – 00:22:10:06
Xandra
It says in Exodus, like, it starts with Pharaoh hardened his heart. Pharaoh hardened his heart. And then it says, God hardened his heart. And then when he’s talking to Moses, He says, go in to Pharaoh. 10 verse 1, go in to Pharaoh for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servant. So there is this interplay. So I’m wondering if, yeah, OK, quantum physics analogy. Light particle slash wave – sort of both. But I also resonate with what you said about Romans 9, which I just, Oh, well, actually, no. I was thinking about the one from Romans 1. Sorry, I went to the wrong place. But it talks about how God gives people up to the lusts of their own hearts. And there’s another place where it says where God gives you up to your own dishonorable passions. So I think there is a sense in which Pharaoh hardened his heart and then God said, OK, you want a hard heart, you go for it. But then just – so I don’t know if it was an active – God was working against the volitional will of Pharaoh to harden his heart. That doesn’t sit well with me theologically.
00:22:10:10 – 00:22:19:08
Lou
Yeah, I agree to an extent because I also – this is where I think – whatever, we’re playing our cards right? Are we’re going to say – this is why I find.
00:22:19:23 – 00:22:22:16
Derek
No one is having trouble discerning what your cards are.
00:22:24:11 – 00:23:58:23
Lou
This is why I find a reformed understanding of God’s sovereignty to be so comforting. This passage is horrendous. Like, there’s no way around it. You can try and say, well, it’s this, but it’s just it’s awful to read. It just flat out – God took the lives and, however you want to view that, the only way that, to me, sits and resonates OK with me is to know that there is a God out there that is good, always, and when I misinterpret the times that he’s not, it’s because of me and not him. And I don’t – I think we struggle. If you take the lens that, no, we like – I don’t even know how I’m trying to word this. I just, I really find it difficult. We really had to take the posture of humility here. If this God does exist, if the God of Christianity exists, the one that created everything, the one that literally spoke the universe into existence, this is why I think Romans 9 is just important. Because it’s just like, he makes things for dishonorable use and honorable use. And who are you to say anything? That does not sit well with our sensitivities. Especially a modern, Western, 21st century view. We are like, absolutely not. God can’t. But it’s the way he’s described, and I know that seems harsh. But the only reason that’s harsh is because we are so arrogant, and we actually think we are the most important thing. And God actually is, and he has the right to do this. But in that he’s actually still good. The reason why we can’t see that is because we still have a very human centric view of things. And that’s why I actually find that comforting, even though that can seem very frustrating for a lot of people.
00:23:59:10 – 00:26:21:08
Alycia
Well, and just, you know, on the hardening heart piece, you know, as Xandra mentioned, I mean. It’s, you know, Pharoah and – in Chapter 8 verse 15, it’s says, Pharoah saw that there was relief – but when Pharaoh saw there was relief, he hardened his heart, right? So we have – it isn’t always God doing, right? As Xandra kinda alluded, like, the Pharaoh hardens. There’s other times where it just says Pharaoh’s heart was hard, was made hard, or something like that. And other times there’s God. Either way, what we see is that this hardening of heart is not permanent because it keeps having to be hardened, right? Or it keeps having to be made hard or got it. So it’s like this thing that happens that his response, it’s almost like a hmmm, like a pout, like, I’m not going to do this. OK, so God does another thing. And then he’s like, No, his heart has to be hardened again, or he does again, whatever it is. And so we see that there actually – Pharaoh isn’t hopeless during this whole thing. I think what we see is that there’s a continual like, OK, well, how about this one, then? Will that be worse enough to get you to change your mind? OK? How about this one? Oh, God’s hardening it here. Oh, Pharoah hardens his heart here? Like so we see this kind of back and forth thing, which I don’t think I can fully absolve Pharaoh of being partially responsible for what happened to his own people because it was his bucking against God, despite all the miracles and things that he had seen in all the plagues and things that he had seen. It’s like even though he just continued to buck against it and finally, his people pay the cost for it as well. And so, I mean, I hear you, Lou. I think one of the challenges that we do have is when God takes – I think we have a whole lot better – we’re a lot better and more accepting when we take life than when God takes life. That’s just a reality because we feel justified, because we understand why we did it and we trust ourselves. But when God does it and we don’t, he doesn’t sit down and give us a 3-hour explanation. We therefore say, well, we can’t trust you. But I think we need to think about all these other factors that are playing in here to kind of help us process that through. And which is why at the end of the day, you know, the character of God is essential. And we know that we have a God who created mankind alive. Like, in other words, obviously Adam was not alive, but he breathed life into him. He wanted him to be alive. So, you know. if he’s taking that. There are reasons behind what he’s doing and there is something larger happening here. And so and ultimately his death, his death on the cross was to give us eternal life, as John 3:16 tells us. I mean, so obviously he is very pro-life.
00:26:22:00 – 00:27:34:07
Lou
And can I just say because with that, like, if we’re going to – I’m thinking of the person that’s listening that’s a skeptic. That’s just like, this sounds – I don’t like this. Like, what do I do with this? If you’re going to accept that what the Old Testament, specifically Exodus, is saying about God is true. All right. Let’s just accept it. He’s done that. Then you have to also accept that what he’s done on the cross is also true. And then now – this is the problem you have to figure out at this point, how can both of these things be true? And does one give me more information about the other? And that’s why, to this day, I would say in light of passages like this, I’m still, like, firmly a Christian because the cross actually answers that for me. The way that Alycia just beautifully wove together in that sense, but also there could be reasons that a loving God would do this, in light of what he has done on the cross. I cannot think of a reason why a hateful God would do this and then also die for the sins of it. That’s the complexity of it. Do you know what I’m saying? Because of what you’re saying is that he’s not actually loving. Well you’ve gotta explain the cross for me then. What in the world is going on there if he’s not actually loving? But can he still be loving in giving us the cross, but then also doing this? I say yes, I don’t know why I struggle with it, but I think the cross explains enough for me.
00:27:34:07 – 00:27:35:19
Alycia
It would be inconsistent with a hateful God.
00:27:35:22 – 00:27:36:17
Lou
With a hateful God. Yeah.
00:27:37:07 – 00:28:41:14
Xandra
I also think it’s probably worth mentioning about what many orthodox Christians believe happens to a baby who dies. I think there’s a comment – now, not all Christians believe this but – many orthodox Christians believe that a child, under a certain age, is given grace by God if they pass away and that they are not condemned to hell. Because maybe I’m just thinking someone is listening to this podcast and they’re worrying or maybe they’ve had a miscarriage or they lost a child, and maybe they’re thinking, you know, why would God pour out wrath and judgment on these kids? I think, to Alycia’s point, this is more about the wrath that Pharaoh incurred. And so I think there is a special grace for those children who were taken as well. And we know this from David, who mourns the loss of his baby and says that he’ll see him again in heaven. So I just want – I just felt that maybe it was appropriate to also mention that before we close out.
00:28:41:22 – 00:29:36:11
Alycia
And just to continue on with that. It’s like, you know, if it’s the firstborn, we don’t know the age of the firstborn. It could be three months, it could be 13 or 15 years old, or I don’t know how high up it went. But this idea of, you know, our struggle with it is that there’s an innocence with this, which I don’t want us to lose, like there’s an innocence and a beauty and a child. And once again, Jesus was innocent as well. And with that same frustration and anger we feel towards someone who’s innocent, experiencing judgment, we bring to Jesus as well. And that’s why, as backwards as it is, that’s why Christians call Good Friday the day that Jesus crucified “good.” Because that innocent man took the judgment and the penalty for people who are far from innocent. And we can take that same righteous anger at the death of the innocent for the uninnocent to the cross.
00:29:37:07 – 00:29:41:11
Derek
Yeah. Well, this is a – this is a lot of yeah, that was great.
00:29:41:11 – 00:29:45:22
Lou
That was phenomenal. Thank you, Alycia. I’m not joking. That was a great, like, ending to that. I loved it.
00:29:45:22 – 00:30:07:20
Derek
When I think, yeah, there’s just – and there’s so many other avenues we could have gone down for anyone wanting to, you know, I would love to talk about this destroyer, who the firstborn actually were, all that sort of stuff. There’s so many things, but I think, yeah, I think we’ve hit the major stuff and I just – I think you guys did a great job. I’m a big fan of this episode.
00:30:07:21 – 00:30:08:09
Alycia
Yeah, me too.
00:30:09:15 – 00:30:45:06
Derek
But um, but yeah, and I just always I like to bring up even when we look in Romans 9, then somehow, even though these, you know, prepared for destruction, somehow in Romans 11, it even tells us that even those people are not without hope. And it brings me back to what you said about Pharaoh. So it’s a beautiful – like somehow, no matter how dark it is and there might be people out there facing very dark circumstances that, whatever it is, it’s not without hope. Yeah, Xandra, would you like to give people some hope as we close out this episode?
00:30:45:07 – 00:31:35:22
Xandra
I feel like you just did way better than I ever could. All right. Well, no, but yes, there’s always hope and it’s never too late. No matter what’s happened in your life. No matter – maybe you’re listening to this podcast and you’re thinking, I kind of resonate with Pharaoh. I feel like I have deliberately hardened my heart against God. I just want to encourage you. It’s never too late. It’s never too late. God is so patient, and he wants to restore a relationship with you. Whatever has gone on in your life, wherever you’re at now, whatever you’ve done, whatever’s happened to you. Your value has not changed in his sight, and you are precious in his eyes and beloved. So I would encourage you look to that cross, look to that blood that was painted on the wood for you on that day and be reconciled to God.
00:31:36:03 – 00:31:36:12
Alycia
Yeah.
00:31:37:19 – 00:32:10:06
Derek
Amen. All right, well, thank you all for what was a real lively and fun episode. Yeah, feel free to – normally I don’t sell this very well, but please, I think I hear it helps if you like and comment. We’d love to hear what you have to say. Have fun in the comments section. Please be nice to one another. And, you know, be Christians down there, too. And yeah, if you want your questions discussed on the podcast, you can email us at wherewebegin@lightengroup.org. We’ll see you guys next week.
