In this episode, the group discuses mental health, the fact that some believe that suicide is an unforgivable sin, and how the Church needs to do a better job of showing the grace of Christ, allowing for more open prayer and community within the Church, and promoting a healthier view of counseling and therapy.
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1(800) 273-8255
Karen Mason – “Preventing Suicide: A Handbook for Pastors, Chaplains, and Pastoral Counselors”
Scott Harrower – “God Of All Comfort”
Transcript – Is Suicide an Unforgivable Sin?
Please note that these transcripts are largely auto-generated and have not been carefully edited.
00:00:00:15 – 00:00:22:06
“Is suicide an unforgivable sin? Today on Where We Begin?
00:00:22:06 – 00:03:05:20
Hey, guys. Welcome to Where We Begin, a podcast where we discuss some of the toughest questions and objections to Christianity. Today, we just want to warn you upfront, this is going to be kind of a hard episode. We’re talking about the topic of suicide, and we just want to start out by saying, like, if you’re struggling with depression or intrusive thoughts or anything like that, and you’re in crisis, you can call 911 right now and get help. Or you can call the National Suicide Hotline at 1 (800) 273-8255. That’s 1 (800) 273-TALK. Essentially, you’re spelling out T-A-L-K at the end. Yeah, we would just urge you to seek help. I’ve been open before about my struggles with mental illness, and there’s nothing weak about seeking help. It’s sometimes the bravest thing you can do. And yeah, we love you. The world’s better with you in it. And so you seek out, please. So today, first, before we start, I just want to read a few statistics to show like this is one of the like major, major crises in our world today. Suicide rates are higher than ever, especially among younger populations. And here in the West, the CDC said that it’s the second leading cause of death for people ages 10 to 34, the fourth leading cause among people ages 35 to 44, and the fifth among people ages 45 to 54. And essentially, that boils down to this, that one person dies from suicide every 11 minutes. So with that, the question that we often get, I’ve been asked a lot, you guys are probably been asked a lot is essentially this. You know, this is often asked by people who have loved someone who committed suicide and they’re concerned about them, and they want to know, “Is suicide an unforgivable sin?” It’s a very popular teaching. I think traditionally this was – it’s in our culture now because this was, I believe, the traditional Catholic teaching, although they have softened their stance in recent decades. But yeah, a real difficult question. And. So, yeah, Lou, can you start us off with – just I mean, where do we? First, what is I mean, maybe it would be important here to just talk about THE unforgivable sin for a little bit?
00:03:05:21 – 00:03:07:03
00:03:07:03 – 00:03:20:04
Because that’s what – we’ll get into some of the details later. But what is biblically – You can find this in Mark 3:22 through 30. And Matthew 12:22 to 32. What was THE unforgivable sin?
00:03:20:04 – 00:04:00:16
Yeah. Um. Yeah, I mean, I think one, I think Xandra, Alycia, and I, it doesn’t matter where we go and speak, this is probably a question. I don’t – honestly, I can’t think the last time I was at a speaking engagement, and I didn’t talk with a teen or a young person who was struggling, who either was cutting or actually had attempted suicide. It’s just it is so, so prevalent. It’s such a real question. And so, yeah, I’m just really grateful that we’re actually going after it. When – the unforgivable sin – I remember growing up being extremely, extremely worried that I would commit the unforgivable sin because I was like, Oh my gosh, like, what does it mean to blaspheme the Holy Spirit?
00:04:00:21 – 00:04:02:03
It sounds very easy to do.
00:04:02:04 – 00:06:12:02
It does it. It’s extremely dangerous. Like, Oh gosh, did I do that already? And if that’s the case, what’s the point anymore? Like if I’ve already blasphemed the Holy Spirit, what am I doing? Or attributing to – attributing what is Satan’s to God or something like is another way of, yeah. Um, the best way I’ve understood this is – It really is the unrepentant heart is the way, the unfor – the unforgivable sin is the one who chooses to ultimately claim to be God, ultimately to not put Christ in his proper place and to be God themselves. It is to ultimately, yeah, to claim the authority over one’s life. And by that blasphemy, the Holy Spirit, one part of the Trinity – God himself. And so to even make that even more simple, the unforgivable sin is – it’s just simply an unrepentant heart. It’s the way I’ve understood it. I’m actually I’m very – I wasn’t actually ready for you to ask me that question. I’ll be very honest with you. I have thought about that passage. But if anybody wants to add into that, that’s how I would best understand. I don’t think it’s as simple as saying – because I think when we hear that, we think, Oh, did you curse God before? Were you ever so angry that you said, You know what? I’m done God and let him know your thoughts? I, as far as I’ve been told and from what I can see from Scripture, especially in light of Psalm 88, I don’t believe that’s what it’s saying. I think it’s actually a more unrepentant heart of “You are not God and I will die willingly, regardless of who you are, like, I want nothing to do with you and I have no desire to submit to you as God.” That’s the unforgivable sin to me. And I hate the words to even say, “to me.” I would hope that’s actually scriptural. I don’t want to just say like, yeah, according to my – but that’s what I’ve been told from just mentors and pastors in my life that I – and I think that tends to that agrees with the breadth of Scripture.
00:06:12:22 – 00:11:06:14
Yeah, I mean, and you know, I mean, to make it – I actually think, you know, you’re on the right track there because, you know, when I – A good definition I heard of “blasphemy” years ago was, “lying, insulting, or discrediting God,” right? So in that particular situation, in Mark and Matthew, Jesus is, you know, casts out demons and they’re like, “Oh, you’re doing it, you know, in the name of Beelzebub.” In other words, here is a God action and it’s actually Satan who’s doing it. And it’s, you know, there’s a demonic aspect to this, right? And Jesus really challenges them with this whole, you know, kingdom divided against itself cannot stand, this whole idea that if I was one of them, me fighting against them is like me fighting against myself. We’re going to, you know, dissemble as an organization, as a group, right? So that doesn’t work. And so it can’t be from them. It’s got to be something different. And if I really am not doing this on behalf of them, well, then you’ve got somebody pretty remarkable in front of you, basically. So, you know, and so I do think that, you know, understanding that, you know, that is a very poignant passage in helping us understand, look, don’t attribute the things of God to demonic kind of activity, you know, don’t – and it’s interesting because it’s blaspheming the Holy Spirit, which is interesting because I think, and I have to reread it. But I think it’s doing something in there where like if you say certain things against the Son of man that you can be forgiven, but the Holy Spirit? Right. And so you know, it’s we are in some way defaming God, insulting God, but in the same sense that if someone does repent from that, then it does seem that – just like it talks about in 1st John, if you confess your sins, he’s faithful and just to forgive you of your sins and cleanse you from all unrighteousness. So there’s this sense in which if you do confess that you can be forgiven. So yeah, I mean, if somebody is, you know, dies with that same unrepentant attitude towards God, that ultimately seems to be that that’s someone who is dying as – saying, “I reject God.” That’s the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit that is being done. It’s, “God, you’re not real. You don’t exist. Jesus was a crazy person. Jesus was just a man.” Like, you know, whatever kind of things that – Oh, I saw, this miracle happened to this person. That wasn’t the Holy Spirit. That was the, you know, the body’s way of fixing itself, right? These are all these examples of this hardened heart towards the works of the Spirit. And so, yeah, I think I would understand that passage, you know, in the same way. And so then going then back to Derek’s original thing, looking at the suicide aspects, I think that this is something that still – There is a division within the church still. There’s not a consensus. I think some people will still say, Look, you know, you don’t have the opportunity to repent like we were talking about, you know, like if you so you, therefore it is not forgiven. Here’s the challenge, right? I may sit here today and say, I don’t recall any sin that I have committed that I need to repent for and then go outside and get hit by a car and die. But maybe I really did have a sin that I forgot about, you know, like. And so then, now I’m in the same position as a person who committed suicide because I didn’t repent from it. And so I’m in the same situation. And so I think if we’re going to say that, you know that suicide is because you didn’t repent after suicide, therefore, you know, it’s unforgivable, then we have to say that honestly, for everything else we’re doing and it makes you live in a state where you’re always like, I’ve got to ask forgiveness. What if I just messed up? I gotta ask for forgiveness. What if I sinned? Like, you’re always going to be like that? And so that’s ultimately kind of what we’re getting at when we say some of these things is we need to think through the implications and broaden it out beyond suicide. So I do think – I do think, you know, I can’t speak for everybody else, but I think at this point, you know, many of us or several of us or maybe just me have had lost somebody to suicide. And it’s a horrible thing. It’s a horrible, horrible thing. I remember I lost a friend to suicide several years ago, and it was devastating. I had no idea the pain that would cause survivors. I just had no idea. And then you take on this guilt. I could have done something more. I should have called more. You know, people, you know, you’re like, God, why don’t you do anything? What if God’s saying to me, “Alycia, you know, I had you in her life.” You know, whatever it might be, you take on all these things and your mind races and you think, “Oh, I could have done, I should have done.” All of these things go through your mind at the end of the day, you know? You know, people help you realize, OK, that isn’t necessarily – it’s not your place, but that’s just the normal response and part of your grief in a lot of these things is to say, “What more could I have done?” And so, yeah, so I say, and one final thing I’ll say and then I’ll, you know, somebody else chime in here, but I just want people to know, as Derek had mentioned, like, I am a big advocate of counseling. And so I spent recently – I stopped, I believe, last year – but I was in counseling for four years. Up until last year, and I’m a big advocate of being like, Look, I have it all together and I’m happy to sit down with somebody who can help me sort out my life. And I think that that is something that oftentimes still is needed in the church for whatever reasons we think we have to have. But we are understanding we don’t have it all together morally, but we somehow have to have it all together mentally. And so we don’t like to recognize that piece as well.
00:11:06:18 – 00:11:12:04
Yeah. Yeah. Just to add on to that. I’m in counseling, I take pills, and I pray.
00:11:12:06 – 00:11:12:21
There we go.
00:11:12:21 – 00:11:15:03
Yeah. And God’s taking care of me through all that.
00:11:15:03 – 00:11:15:22
There we go.
00:11:15:22 – 00:11:16:09
00:11:16:10 – 00:11:17:01
00:11:17:09 – 00:13:22:01
But I wanted – one of the things I want to point out quickly something about specifically the unforgivable sin, which will, I think, go into play when we talk about suicide more is that there is this understanding almost of a specifically religious elite people who should have known God and were waiting on God who saw him and said, you’re a demon essentially, and you’re working on behalf of demons, so there is almost this. And I think this is why now, you know, we’re not Catholic, but I think why Catholics have softened a bit because they’ve noticed, well, the unforgivable sin is something that you almost have to know better in order to commit it. Like, you should know better in order to commit it. But at that point, there is this hardening of the heart in which they won’t repent. And I think that will help lead into some of our discussion here. In her book ‘Preventing Suicide,’ which is a great resource for Christians, Karen Mason mentions a series of myths concerning suicide in the Christian. I’m just going to read off a few here. Real Christians do not experience suicidal thoughts. You just need to pray harder. Suicidal people just want attention. People who commit suicides are just being selfish or they are angry and vengeful. Depressed people just need to buck up and a few others. Another one I’ve heard in the past is that, you know, sort of this cowardly thing, this coward’s way out and kind of viewing all suicides in a sense, like, you know, like, I mean, Hitler’s suicide you might be able to say in one sense, is that, but I wanted to talk about just a couple of those and I wonder if Xandra, you’d be able to help us with this? Do true Christians, real, faithful Christians, suffer from mental illness? Or is it a sign of weak faith? I mean, what’s going on with faith in that moment?
00:13:23:16 – 00:15:04:11
I think all of us are mentally broken, emotionally broken, and physically broken because of the fall. I think there are different levels of that. I don’t think that everyone needs to be medicated. I don’t think. I don’t think the people that we think have it all together have it all together as much as we think they do. And that mental illness is a real thing and it may not always be a diagnosable thing, but we all struggle with brokenness on every ontological level because of the fall. And God is going to restore us on all of those levels. So if you are a Christian and you have a physical ailment, people might have told you if you had enough faith, you would pray and this physical ailment would go away. And we know better. We know that that’s bad theology. And yet when people say this in a mental way, we’re more ready to accept it in the church. We’re more ready to go along with it. When someone says, you know, if you had better faith, you wouldn’t be as mentally broken as you are, you wouldn’t deal with anxiety, you wouldn’t deal with depression. You shouldn’t need to have medication for this right? But then for a physical ailment, it’s OK to take medication. So I’ve always been surprised by that and confused by it, and in some cases, angered by that. Because I’ve met a lot of young people all over the world, I’ve met young people, who come to me and say, I am struggling with X, Y or Z. Am I not saved? Because if I was saved, I wouldn’t be struggling with this, and I’m just really curious about where that rhetoric is coming from?
00:15:04:18 – 00:15:05:07
Do you think.
00:15:05:18 – 00:17:11:08
I’d love to actually talk about that because I think we want to quickly demonize how that became part of the church lingo. One, I want to say, first of all, it is wrong. It’s not good theology. Like we know to say enough, like, that’s actually not true. That is an example where Christians – And what I would like to say it’s just giving whoever this was years ago that started it, the benefit of doubt, of really trying to help people. The idea was probably like suicide is bad. Like, we don’t want people to kill themselves. We think that’s a bad thing. How do we tell them that? And that’s this is the overarching like, well, let me say something that’s probably a little further than what scripture says. We do this all the time. We’re still doing it today. This is just one area. It’s like, mean, it really bit us. Like the level. I mean, the amount of times I’ve even – I’ve wrestled with that question, it’s like, Well, wait a second, if I really do have enough faith or and why is mental disorder or mental health not associated with just physical health? Like what’s the why is the divide there? Like, it doesn’t even seem like we have the language there. And I just think it was like, I just want to give the benefit of the doubt to our former brothers and sisters who were alive, you know, years ago that tried to do this. I don’t necessarily want to say – there may have been malicious intent in that, but I actually think it probably was to help. But it didn’t. It actually harmed more. And so we do need to address that. We do need to say, Look, no, that’s not true. But we also at the same point, want to uphold suicide is bad. It’s not good. It’s not God’s design for you. We don’t want to over glorify or trivialize it, either. Do you know what I’m saying? Like, that’s the weird tension. And I do think at one point we tried to like really at one point like, say, Well, this is ridiculous. You shouldn’t be doing this. Like, you shouldn’t even struggle with that. And it’s really – we need to correct. We really do. We need to get back to what I think is orthodox Christianity, which is in the center lane of saying, No, you are broken. Sin is bad. This is not. This is not the avenue God has designed you for. But he also knows the brokenness here and he knows that, like, mental brokenness is a very real thing that. Yeah.
00:17:11:11 – 00:18:28:20
Well, yeah. And to your point, I think maybe some of the rhetoric came from a very true fact that we serve the king who casts out fear. We serve the king who abolishes anxiety. We do. Perfect love casts out fear and who offers a more perfect love than Christ? So we know that he brings us solace and comfort and healing, and those things are all true. But I guess my contention with some of the rhetoric is when it’s so black and white. I mean, just yesterday I came across an article that says, Do you have certain fears of this? You’re probably not a Christian. That was the title of the piece. And I won’t name it what the actual title was, but I read through it in its entirety and I read through all the articles that were cited in it. And I was like, This is garbage. This is not good theology because it’s so black and white to say if – because if you’re a real Christian, you won’t have fear. And if you’re fearing this, it means you’re not a Christian. And that’s the rhetoric I want to come against. That if there’s a Christian out there who struggles with anxiety or depression, is that God’s desire for your life? No, but it doesn’t mean that you don’t belong to him. Doesn’t mean that you don’t know him.
00:18:29:07 – 00:20:23:17
It is this, would you say even it’s almost this – so to Lou’s point, I understand historically why it was there, because physical ailments hurt your body and depression and anxiety we would think of as just these are thought sicknesses, so it seems like this is the soul this is. But even now we know better. So to proclaim it now is almost this Gnostic idea like – Body bad. Soul thoughts should be good – and it’s not an integrated view of the human being. That’s this body and spirit that becomes a living soul. Yeah. So and just to point out too, I just want to name a few people in the Bible who did struggle in this way as well, just because I think that’s helpful to see others. Rebecca, the wife of Isaac, mother of Jacob, there’s Rachel, Jacob’s wife, Job, Jeremiah, Moses, Elijah, Jonah and then Jesus himself said, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death.” That’s a strong statement. And other people – Charles Spurgeon, Martin Luther. I mean, it goes, it just goes down. So these are I mean, life is hard. Essentially, is what we’re getting at and it affects us. Now. I think we’ve already mentioned this a little bit, but did someone want to say just a little bit about, you know – How should someone suffering from mental illness and what should be their posture in prayer? Because one of the myths is they just need to pray harder and we wouldn’t say, No, praying harder is not good. But what is that posture then and what role should prayer play in the life of someone who’s struggling?
00:20:24:19 – 00:23:46:12
Well, I think with any Christian prayer needs to be one of the pillars of your life in light of what Scripture says about it. In light of what Christ commands and this opportunity to have communion with God. But I think another, and you guys touched on it, just this idea of counseling. What is counseling also outside – like this concept of, like, if we were created by a triune God who is built for community? Like, it all plays into itself in a really good way, and it’s just another realm where it’s like, it’s so frustrating that like this idea that counseling or getting any type of therapy, especially for something mental, is as bad as a Christian because you have the mind of Christ and again, a passage or just a concept that a scripture was taken to use and almost used as a blade to say whatever we want is so problematic because it’s like. We were – Because we’re born in a very fallen state, the importance of community, the importance to be alongside others, this is why I mean, I always try to get young people to say I don’t go to church because I think I’m getting kudos with Christ or whatever. It’s like, Oh, checked them off. That’s not why I do it. I do it ultimately – I mean, honestly, to glorify God into setting aside a day to then worship alongside others. But there’s the community aspect of this that I think is probably where we’ve done this poorly as the church of not letting people, when they are struggling, especially when it comes to something like thoughts of suicide, for the church to be the place where they can wrestle with that. For the church should be the place they can actually openly share, “I don’t feel like living anymore. Can you help me?” And not actually see that as being, like, you’re in disbelief. You don’t love Jesus. You’re in sin. Like, to actually come alongside them. That’s where I think, I know you asked about prayer, and I’m not diminishing prayer. It is. Yes, you want to be asking the Lord to help reshape your mind on that, to help if there is a chemical imbalance, to help all those things. But so many times it’s the issue in our lives, I think in my own life it is just multi variant. It’s a variety of things. And so when we start living inside, because we weren’t just – we weren’t just designed to know and love Jesus. Yes, that is the primary focus, like, God has created you to do it. But he’s also created you for community and you don’t get to forfeit one just because you have, Jesus. It’s like, no, he designed us to know and love other image bearers and we in return help each other in that. But I do think the framework of the Christian worldview is going to be the one that’s going to help us with it. It’s not just simply, Oh, you need more community, because I realize there’s a lot of people that’s still wrestling with suicide that are in fantastic community. So I don’t want to trivialize it and say it’s this, but I do want, I think, one of the biggest things I’ve seen when I’m having these conversations with those that are struggling – There is often a sense of alienation, there’s a sense of being alone, and I do want, outside of just prayer, I think there’s the role of the church to be that and shame on us if we’ve not done that well and I hope that we do that better because I don’t think that’s something that I’ve necessarily seen in the right lens my entire life.
00:23:46:14 – 00:25:27:06
Can I add something about prayer, though, as well? So, yeah, the community thing is really important. But in my view, prayer is community. Prayer – There are different forms of prayer, and we often think of it as just you bringing something to the Lord and saying, “God, will you help me with this? Lord, will you take this away from me?” But a traditional understanding of prayer is just being communal with God. And there are some things that we experience in our human lives that other people won’t understand. There’s only one person who will understand that, and that’s the Lord. And I think going through seasons of anxiety and depression create open doors to go deeper in prayer life and not in the way that people tell you to pray. Because people will tell you if you just go to the Lord and keep asking him to take this away, he will. And I’m here to tell you that that’s not true. I’m sorry, but it’s not true. There are some things that he doesn’t take away. But other forms of prayer, like just resting in him or just sitting at his feet and listening and saying, “Lord, what do you have to say to me? What do you have to say about who you are for me right now?” And opening the Word and seeking him in the Word. And those are all prayerful things. I know some Christians are very hard on contemplative prayer, but I find that really helpful in times of struggle. Times where you’re just abiding with Christ and letting him love you and letting him comfort you. So yes, I would say pushing into prayer is important. But again, it might look differently than what you’re used to in your life.
00:25:27:08 – 00:25:28:11
Yeah. Well said.
00:25:28:14 – 00:28:59:20
And I think, just to add on to what Xandra was saying, I think we do need to have a much more realistic view on prayer and really our relationship with God here on this Earth. You know, if Jesus had said, when you become a Christian, everything is going to go great, you’re never gonna get sick, you’re never going to cry, and all these things? Then we would have an issue. When in fact, he said the opposite. He said, You know, you’re gonna have a really hard time here, but be of good cheer if I’ve overcome the world. In other words, the solution wasn’t, you’re going have a hard time here, but I’m going to fix it. The solution was, you’re going to have a hard time here, but look forward to what’s to come. And oftentimes when we’re in this sense of feeling of suicide, we feel very helpless. Like there’s no one who can help us because we’re alone or because we’ve tried that. And that hasn’t worked. And as a result of that help is that we oftentimes feel hopeless, and we feel like that’s it. This is the way it’s always going to be. Nothing’s ever going to get better. And what Jesus is doing there is he’s telling us, Look, let me tell you the end of the story. It’s going to stink right now. So, you know, going into this game, it’s going to be rough. But the end is a guarantee, and the end is something that can’t change no matter what happens here, no matter what you think of yourself. That hope, that future of me overcoming the world, that’s based on my life, death, and resurrection, cannot change. And so I think when it comes to prayer, it’s almost like, you know, it’s like we did another episode on “Why doesn’t God always answer prayer and healing,” right? People pray for God to heal them from cancer, but he doesn’t always do that, right? And I think one of the things that we need to keep in mind is that God isn’t always interested in the end result. He’s interested in all of the things that we do on a daily basis. This process to whatever that end might be, whether it is a healing or whether that is a death. And in other words, he’s interested in walking with us in this journey of pain. Like the present where we are today and where we are going and the things that we will learn and things that we will grow in. Just his existence and presence with us, I think, is a part of where he’s thinking – what’s important to him as well. And so I think we think, you know, my life isn’t worth living, oftentimes because of the pain that I’m in, as if the only lives worth living, or what determines whether life is worth living, is whether or not it’s pain free. That’s not what determines whether or not a life is valuable. A life is valuable in the same way that a piece of art is valuable. The value is determined by the creator. It’s just like the value of the piece of art is determined by the artist. The name of the artist. Who is that artist? That’s what determines value, and your creator determines that you are valuable regardless of what other people think about you, whether on social media, which, by the way, is one of the number one reasons our influences and people who attempt suicide is social media. And so if that if you are someone who is struggling with these things, take a week off of social media and just see how you feel. Don’t go near it. Just stay off of it because we have seen drastic increases in suicide because of social media. And so I would just say, you know, I think ultimately when we’re coming to God with prayers, we’re looking like, “God, I’m in a dark place. Will you climb into this dark place with me? Will you just climb in here with me and help me to learn how to live in the pain, to live in this agony, knowing that it may not get better? But I know I’m not alone, and I know the God of the universe sees me, and he cares, and he’s willing to walk it through with me.” And that, to me, is kind of where we go when it comes to prayer.
00:29:00:01 – 00:29:02:09
Yeah. OK, great.
00:29:02:14 – 00:29:39:07
Derek, would you just – I know we’re running out of time, and I know you’re technically the emcee, I do this to you a lot. I don’t really care, though. You’ve actually – you’ve, in many ways, in a way that I have not, wrestled with this question. And just understanding – I would love for you to finish the podcast and like, what is your advice to someone that really is wrestling and how outside of just like, I know you started with a whole “here,” you know, “call 911, here’s a hotline.” But like, yeah, from a Christian standpoint, as someone that’s wrestled with just mental illness and that, can you finish?
00:29:40:22 – 00:31:02:03
Uh, sure. Thanks. Um yeah. The bad thing is that I usually cry when I talk about and I’ll try not to. And um, yeah, no. I mean, I think you guys brought up a lot of good things. It is embracing the whole Christian life. It’s not just prayer, it’s being in community. And I know, you know, a friend of mine, Scott Harrower, wrote a great book called “God of All Comfort.” But talking to him, he talks about embracing all of your senses, like get a candle that smells good and just enjoy that. Get artwork around you that makes you happy. Do things that make you happy. Take care of yourself. Love yourself. Forgive yourself. Be kind and gracious to yourself. We’re often our worst critics. And the thing is, like, depression and anxiety, they’re just, you know, they’re liars. They tell you things about yourself that just aren’t true. And they tell you that everything’s hopeless, and it’s not. That you’re forsaken, and you’re not. See, I just. I think it’s getting a – allowing yourself to be loved by God, who just is Love. Yeah. So I think that’s about as far as I can go.
00:31:02:03 – 00:31:06:04
Derek is a teddy bear. You guys don’t know that, but he is.
00:31:06:10 – 00:31:41:06
Not just in size, but in general shape. It’s very teddy bear-ish. But yeah, thank you, guys. I hope you feel loved today. And yeah, just again, seek help by professionals who know how to handle these things. We love you. We’re not counselors, but we would love to pray for you. So if you want, send in your prayer requests and we would just love to, you know, lift you up as a community here. God bless you, guys. See you next week.